Bill

Again, this is limited to American Bred AKC registered dogs.
DDs/DKs are not AKC registered and wont be.


Im unsure of NAHRA but think the same thing applies. NAHRA and HRC were once affiliated before the split.


NAVHDA is not a game played. It is a Registry and testing format for breeders and hunters.


Probably not many.
Retrieving a triple mark flawlessly with no hand refusals, or minimum of them, is not part of what the Euro breed clubs concern themselves with. Or taking angles and lining to them. I will concede that to the Labs.

The history behind trials was that so many dogs in the 1930/s40s were passing them, that they had to create more challenges to 'differentiate' and select what was thought to be the better dogs, and much of this had little to do with real hunting scenarios.
Our US Lab dogs have not done well in Overseas competition under real life conditions, when trialed in Britain for example, taking 5th place in the worlds. And these were America's best dogs.

HUNTING is the agenda for the German Breed clubs.
Game Recovery IS. Hardness on Vermin IS. Blood Tracking IS.
A short blind retrieve IS. A marked Retrieve at hunting distance IS. Proper Field work IS.

seandcso75

Bill....I appreciate the info you give. However you speak of only about a dozen DD/DK's that titled in HRC history. How many Labs have there been? Thousands I would have to say. I'm not trying to start a fight but I have been on many other sites where DD owners preach up and down and tell everyone there that the DD will out do a Lab any day of the week and do it with more style. I was merely pointing out the fact that I have been running in Hunt tests for a few years now and I have yet to see a DD competing. I am sorry if I struck a nerve with you but it wasn't directed at YOU personally. I was just reliving some biased posts (On other sites) where the people were bashing Labs and spouting off about how great the Deutsch Drahtaar's are. Also my dog was not only bred to compete but she was bred to hunt as well, and she does a fantastic job of that.

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Bill

Sean, the DD and DK breed clubs are all of 30 years old in America.
Only a few thousand dogs in existance here.

Retrieving trials is not, nor will be, a testing componant for these dogs, but an extracurriculur. VERSATILE HUNT Testing IS the MANDATORY Test Componant for DDs and DKs, not just pointing or just retrieving tests.

The dozen DD dogs that showed up to run and title in HRC tests, have all been fine examples of their breed.
You may not see them in IOWA HRC tests, but in Canada, Ohio, Wisconsin and Illinois you will, on occasion.
As mentioned a DK -V Riverwoods dog is a 500pt HRC dog as well.
Many DO the work and compete at trials, but most are just hunters, and do their mandatory Versatility tests, which is how the breed was created and assessed.


No offense taken. Give it enough time, and you will likely see some at some tests, I enjoy hunt tests and think theyre fun, giving one something to do in the Spring.
I do think 'outdo' if a misstatement.
No dog will outdo the best Labs, at their game of Lining and marking in trials or hunting.

BUT...DDs WILL outfind them, hands down, when sent on cripples in marsh or cattails.
And do more than adequate job of fetching every downed bird in a blind. They do it in their native country of Germany, in Europe, Canada and in North and South America.

Ive seen it personally with my own dogs, bringing back cripples lost by other dogs and I also gave you an example of a HRC NAHRA test where 24 Finishd Labs failed (swimming in circles) and 1 DD Passed that test day.
(Ali Vom Backwater-DD)

DDs cant be trained with repetition such as Labs (They are More like Goldens) they need a softer hand, more fun, less 'rote' work.

But many can take angles and mark well enough to pass HRC Finished tests, its just not a priority for the owners, as it tells little to the prospective buyers, who seek a Versatile hunting dog that can Search, point, Track, Dispatch vermin and retreive-an all in one dog.

And it takes alot of time to train, when owners seek a hunting dog that has already completed its Versatility testing and is alreadyan adequate hunter. (1 Blind retrieve and 1 Mark are test componant of Versatile testing, as well as search testing)
There have been a few Lab Trial enthusiasts that have 'gone to the dark side' and tried DDs, and really like them.

(Gonehuntin was a pro retreiver trainer, Hunting board(s)member and had 40 years in Labs. He Says he will never be without a DD after owning and hunting over one. Dr Coffman of IAMs, also has made the switch and loves his DD)


You didnt strike a nerve at all. But the world is alot bigger than just Iowa HRC tests.
I will not bash Working Labs.
They are great dogs and a true specialist. I like them. If all I did was water work, they'd probaby be my first choice.
But I also appreciate what well trained Versatile dogs can do, and their reputation as hunters is growing and impressing alot of people-in the fields, water and woods.


Im glad you are happy with your dog. Best of luck to you with her.

J. Abbas

I have owned labs and DD's, DD's are unmatched as a whole (imho).............Love them, getting another this spring. The brother is involved heavily in the organization and judges many hunt tests a year.

J. Abbas

DD's can't enter your everyday AKC hunts, They have their own bar set by the German run organization. Going back and reading, this has been mentioned.

Feather Whackers

Pointing Labs are definitely the way to go. Go with the right combo of breeding and you will have a dog that will point with the best of them n have the drive to retrieve birds in any conditions.

Feather Whackers

But I would have to say Goldens would have to thrown in the mix for having the best noses

Bill

Labs, nor any other flushing or rerieving dogs are classified as Versatile Hunting dogs, in the European tradition.

Dogs there, are Required and expected to hunt all game-Boar, Track Deer, Hare, Pheasant, Waterfowl, Kill and dispatch Fox, Badger and raccoon-Game nesting vermin.

The Noses on Versatiles are Superior To the other breeds.
Their noses are often good enough but cant be compared to the noses on the Versatiles.

Youve not seen a deep nose until youve seen a dog track a 2 day old blood track over 4 miles, that seemngly disappeared, ignoring any hotter scent it comes across or jumped game.

Pointing Labs arent in the same league with the versatiles in the field or in tracking (but many do a satisfactory job).
But of course, I give them an edge in the cold blind, and in lining and in marking.

Bill

This is what Im talking about..Seals, Bear, Boar etc




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Drop Em Dead

I love my shorthair she is a retreiving nut and she loves the water. I have owned many shorthairs alsohunted over countless ones and finally found one that will just sit with me and loves to just sit around and preferably as close as she can get to you. This is my second shorthair from this breeder and both are just alike and not bouncing off the walls, very calm and well behaved and love the water! The nose on these dogs from this breeder are unbelievable as well. I can't say enough good things about them. If you decide to go with a shorthair I would consider KMK Kennels in Minnesota.




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